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Re: EBS & ASM best practices and suggestions

From: Yury Velikanov <j.velikanovs@xxxxxxxxx>
To: ora-apps-dba@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:01:36 +1100

Hi Sridhar, > the new hardware. Is there any advantage/disadvantage of using ASM with RAC > or without RAC? Advantages of ASM are quite simple: -- RAW/Block devices performance (no additional FS/VM layers to execute) -- "almost" FS manageability -- no additional cost (especially important for GFS/CFS etc solutions) -- CFS out of the box -- simplicity :) ..... Yes. Don't wonder :) I said it is simple. The concepts of ASM are much simpler than even ext3 If you in a single host configuration then DIRECT IO on ext3 FS will give you kind of the same performance and it would be difficult to find compiling reasons to use ASM beside of "it is cool looking on the top of your RESUME" :) or you and your organisation are getting ready to mainstream technology from Oracle. One good reason by the way might be HA requirements if you are on DAS that doesn't provide HW RAID out of the box (quite rare our days). ASM redundancy feature might be quite useful in that case. I would appreciate other members input in that discussion. BTW: Just recently discovered dNFS area. This is NFS on steroids from Oracle. Oracle DB directly communicates with NFS (read NAS) server avoiding KERNEL layer!!!!! Kind of TNS in Storage area :). This brings NAS performance to extremely hight level. Some respectable colleague from Pythian claims that dNFS is better than any SAN or DAS !!! However from my understanding dNAS is not comparable with ASM. If both claims are true then we will see two main Oracle storage streams in the future: ASM (SAN/DAS) and dNFS (NAS). PS I have sent you my presentation in a separate email. I have got a couple of slides on advantage/disadvantage of using ASM their as well. Yury. On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Reddy, Sridhar <SReddy@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Yuri, we are also kind of moving towards that direction of using ASM and may > be RAC on 11gR2 and like to see your presentation. We are contemplating on > either going with one big Solaris SPARC server or two small RAC nodes and > eliminate Veritas as File system (might save ton of money) and use ASM with > the new hardware. Is there any advantage/disadvantage of using ASM with RAC > or without RAC? > > > > Sridhar > > ________________________________ > > From: ora-apps-dba-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:ora-apps-dba-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shyam Kumar > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:32 AM > To: ora-apps dba > Subject: RE: EBS & ASM best practices and suggestions > > > > Yury, > Please send me complete presentation, would like to review > > Thanks > >> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:16:45 +1100 >> Subject: Re: EBS & ASM best practices and suggestions >> From: j.velikanovs@xxxxxxxxx >> To: ora-apps-dba@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> Pravin, >> >> I have got a slide from my ASM presentation for you (in attachment). >> Please have a look. The point it that ASM handles extremely simple >> task to maintain file extend map. >> The junior programmer would write that code in a few weeks :) >> The point is that ASM is 6 years in the market and extremely simple >> peace of code. >> I would say any files system drivers (kernel code) is significantly >> complicated. >> From personal experience could say that I didn't sow any serious >> problem with basic ASM functionality during last 2 years. At the same >> time you might meet some bugs if would use some "advanced" features >> like online rebalancing etc. >> >> PS If anyone is interested in the full text of presentation just drop >> me an email. >> >> Regards, >> Yury >> >> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Pravin RC <pravinrc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > HI, >> > >> > Thanks guys for your inputs it will help me debeting :) on the use of >> > ASM. >> > >> > My concern is also you have to maintain another database for ASM and if >> > that >> > goes down means u cant access the filesystem and hence the db, and if >> > you >> > want to use ASM with RAC then you have to maintain ASM instance on the >> > participating nodes. >> > >> > thanks >> > Pravin >> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Luis Freitas <lfreitas34@xxxxxxxxx> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Yuri, >> >> >> >> I mean that before 10g, if you needed something similar to what ASM >> >> offers in terms of manageability, you would need to purchase Veritas >> >> CFS for >> >> Oracle, or other similar product (HP, IBM, Sun), and these tools were, >> >> and >> >> still are, very expensive. >> >> >> >> If you didn't, you would be forced to use raw devices, with all the >> >> management headaches it has. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Luis Freitas >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Yury Velikanov <j.velikanovs@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> > From: Yury Velikanov <j.velikanovs@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> > Subject: Re: EBS & ASM best practices and suggestions >> >> > To: ora-apps-dba@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> > Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 11:40 AM >> >> > > I kinda dislike the >> >> > absence of "fsck like" tools for ASM, and the lack of backup >> >> > superblocks, not sure if this changed in 11g. >> >> > It is there now with new ASM Volume Manager and ASM Cluster >> >> > File >> >> > system :) However you don't need it for DB files any way. >> >> > There are other methods checking Oracle DB files >> >> > integrity. >> >> > >> >> > > Aside from that I feel it is a killer >> >> > product. Similar functionality with cluster filesystems cost >> >> > hundreds of thousands of dollars, except in the case you go >> >> > for OCFS2, and that is available for linux only. >> >> > Not sure what do you mean by "cost hundreds of thousands of >> >> > dollars" >> >> > as ASM is for free. It doesn't cot you anything (You have >> >> > Oracle DB >> >> > licenses anyway ;) >> >> > >> >> > Yury >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Luis Freitas <lfreitas34@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > Yuri, >> >> > > >> >> > > I kinda dislike the absence of "fsck like" tools for >> >> > ASM, and the lack of backup superblocks, not sure if this >> >> > changed in 11g. >> >> > > >> >> > > Aside from that I feel it is a killer product. >> >> > Similar functionality with cluster filesystems cost hundreds >> >> > of thousands of dollars, except in the case you go for >> >> > OCFS2, and that is available for linux only. >> >> > > >> >> > > Best Regards, >> >> > > Luis Freitas >> >> > > >> >> > > --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Yury Velikanov <j.velikanovs@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > >> From: Yury Velikanov <j.velikanovs@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> > >> Subject: EBS & ASM best practices and >> >> > suggestions >> >> > >> To: ora-apps-dba@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> > >> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:50 AM >> >> > >> Hello Pravin, >> >> > >> >> >> > >> If you are planning to run EBS in RAC >> >> > configuration what >> >> > >> possible options do you have for Storing DB files >> >> > ? >> >> > >> RAW devices (block devices) - Best DB IO >> >> > performance - >> >> > >> Manageability is rubbish >> >> > >> Cluster FS - rubbish performance / technical >> >> > complexity / >> >> > >> costs - Good Manageability >> >> > >> >> >> > >> ASM - Best DB IO performance - Good Manageability >> >> > - >> >> > >> Mirroring/Striping out of the box - Mainstream >> >> > today & >> >> > >> Oracle Future (11GR2 introduced ACFS - ASM Cluster >> >> > File >> >> > >> System) >> >> > >> >> >> > >> From my point of view you do not have other >> >> > options :) >> >> > >> >> >> > >> End of the day ASM isn't a rocket since. It is a >> >> > very >> >> > >> simple product covering very simple operations >> >> > (files extent >> >> > >> map synchronization) >> >> > >> >> >> > >> If you have any questions on doubts please do not >> >> > hesitate >> >> > >> to share those with us. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> PS ASM topic is kind of HOT for me now as I just >> >> > delivered >> >> > >> the following paper during annual Australian User >> >> > Group >> >> > >> Automatic Storage Management >> >> > >> - 11G >> >> > >> R2 features for mission critical >> >> > systems >> >> > >> >> >> > >> All the best with your projects, >> >> > >> Yury >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Pravin RC <pravinrc@xxxxxxxxx> >> >> > >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Guys, >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Sorry this is not ASM thread, but i want to >> >> > discuss >> >> > >> the use and experience of ASM. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> I am in design phase we will have 2 node RAC and >> >> > ASM( >> >> > >> best practise and MAA). i am bit skiptical on use >> >> > of ASM as >> >> > >> it is adding additional maintenance of ASM >> >> > instances on >> >> > >> each node. And again copying files into and from >> >> > will be >> >> > >> another challenge. Guys could you please discuss >> >> > your your >> >> > >> experience on ASM use. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> thanks >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Pravin >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Yury >> >> > Oracle Certified Master >> >> > Mobile number: +61 405728926 >> >> > ============================================ >> >> > http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs.html >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > Pravin R C >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Yury >> Oracle Certified Master >> Mobile number: +61 405728926 >> ============================================ >> http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs.html > > ________________________________ > > New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. -- Yury Oracle Certified Master Mobile number: +61 414252591 ============================================ http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs_0.html

References:
- RE: EBS & ASM best practices and suggestions
  - From: Reddy, Sridhar

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